CELEBRATE RECOVERY EXPOSED
CELEBRATE RECOVERY VS. SCRIPTURE
Chapter 8 Excerpt from WHO’S DRIVING THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH?
BY JAMES SUNDQUIST
Published by Southwest Radio Church Ministries
SINNERS-ANONYMOUS—IS THIS A BIBLICAL MODEL?
This morning I was curious why the word “anonymous” is in Alcoholics Anonymous, particularly since Anonymous groups are pillars in the PDC/CGM Theology through such programs as Celebrate Recovery. So I went to the AA website and found out. Something seemed rotten in the State of Denmark, but I could not quite put my finger on it. I knew the CGM/PDC has a host of Anonymous Programs in its churches and curriculum, including a sexaholics anonymous type of program. There are several problems I have with the program in general, Biblically speaking, such as we are “powerless.” Would a sex offender say he is powerless to obey God? Or if he has a victim mentality, would he say, “I just can’t help myself from molesting children”? These issues, including the concerns over “a higher power” are well known and addressed already. But the “anonymous” issue stuck in my craw. This was not as easy to discern, as there are issues of sin in our lives which could remain anonymous, or at least known to only those involved in the offense (both the perpetrator and the victim(s) and to one or more who are spiritual to help lead them to repentance.) But here is the major breakdown with “anonymous” regarding what the Bible says about it. First, I can not find anywhere in the Bible where it recommends putting all of the people with the same problem in a targeted group where they can commiserate and help each other “recover”. If you have seven pedophiles in the church, do you create a class and put them all together? Doesn’t I Corinthians 15:33 read “Do not be deceived: “bad company corrupts good morals.” Does it say put them in the same group? Or do you mark each and every one of them to identify them and then separate them out from the flock (and each other)? The Bible teaches that you would surround each one with good examples and the spiritually mature. Another glaring problem I see is that the Anonymous charter gives a type of diplomatic immunity, whereby the individual NEVER has to be exposed publicly, or before the congregation according to Matthew 18 or Ephesians Chapter Five, unless, the individual chooses to do so. And this anonymity is supported and defended by the “anonymous” charter. So, for example, if a brother in the Church (whether a member or not) were confronted for sexual adultery or fornication, was confronted by one or more other brothers or sisters (still note no group of other like offenders), then the Elders if he or she still has not repented (still no group), then before the entire congregation (still no group of like offenders), the Biblical procedure of Church Discipline is preserved. Finally, should the brother or sister not repent, removal from that local Body of Christ should be Biblically exercised and mandated. But even then, after this sinner is turned over to the other “higher power”, Satan himself, there is still a pathway of restoration left open for this fallen brother or sister to return to the church. But this person must still repent and once restored demonstrate the fruit of his or her repentance. But with the “anonymous” model or charter, such as a Sexaholics Anonymous type group that is promoted by a host of PDC/CGM programs, the person committing these ongoing acts could cling to the pre-agreed arrangement and charter position of remaining “anonymous.” Who could then pierce this veil of unbiblical protection? This person could remain sexually anonymous…and active, and repent publicly only at his or her own behest, and remain so forever. If someone were to confront him or her, this person could say “but you told me I could remain anonymous, and besides the charter permits me to remain anonymous….and you can’t violate my anonymity and confidentiality!” Should any who is wise among them decide to act Biblically, they would violate the “anonymous” charter, and the person in this group would easily be able to challenge any person who broke this confidence. Of course, were a brother to decide to act Biblically in this example, he would be branded intolerant, unforgiving, and insensitive to Harry or Mary’s felt needs! So sin in the body, or such leaven could continue to work until the entire lump is leavened with impunity.
So let us examine more thoroughly if, in fact, the Bible really does support the idea of “anonymous” groups within the ongoing body life of the church as well as it pertains to the procedure for Church Discipline.
Does “anonymous” sound like what Jesus meant in Matthew 18:7: “And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”?
Is “anonymous” what Paul meant in Ephesians 5:11 when he writes: “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.”
Is “anonymous” what Paul meant in 1Timothy 5:20 when he writes: “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”
Is “anonymous” what Paul meant in 1Corinthians 5:1-11: “It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you…. when ye are gathered together (i.e, in the church)…. To deliver such an one unto Satan (in other words REMOVE him from the church) for the destruction of the flesh…. Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? But now I have written unto you not to keep company (or does it say form a fornicators anonymous group and keep them in the church?), if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”
Is “anonymous” what Paul meant in: 2 Corinthians 13:1 “This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
13:1 Deut. 19:15
Does “anonymous” sound like what Ezekiel meant in: Ezekiel 33:6 “But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.”
No, Sinners-anonymous groups have no place in church life because there is simply no foundation for it Biblically. (Plug any word you want in front of the word anonymous…see “anonymics anonymous” below.)
In terms of conversation and story-telling in anonymous or Celebrate Recover Groups, Scripture actually gives the opposite counsel about what not to speak about what these people do in private. The inverse of this is what we are to speak…
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Jam 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.
Finally, the Bible does not speak of rounding up a group of like, or targeted sinners that I can recall, except to destroy them, e.g., the earth swallowing up the murmurers and God slaughtered of the company of false prophets. It is he or she who is more spiritual, one who first goes to the fallen brother to gently restore him or her. The only time a group appears is when the many who are spiritual go to the ONE brother or sister to confront…the next group is the congregation. But it is always a process of putting the sinner in good company, not bad company with more bad company to corrupt their morals even further. There is absolutely NO model in Scripture for this “group think.” The only example I can possibly think of is a hospital…and you could argue that the church is a hospital of sinners. But carefully note that no one goes to the hospital to hang around and get well from someone else with the exact same disease….it is the doctors and nurses and equipment they surround themselves with…but these are all WELL PEOPLE, and medically trained staff, all of whom would be disqualified in an Anonymous or Celebrate Recovery Group, RIGHT?
If the church uses AA or any one of its many 12 Step hybrids, why don’t they call alcoholism what the Bible calls it: “drunkards.” It never ONCE calls it a disease! IT never once calls a drunkard a victim, though there certainly are victims of drunkards, such as car accident victims and battered wives. And even if the higher power is Jesus (as though Jesus could be a force vs. a person, or a Tarot Card, or a Ouija Board, or a Crystal Ball….as though Jesus can be summoned up…that is pure sorcery), it is of no value, because the prayer is asking the higher power for something Jesus would never ask us to pray. He never told us to pray that we recover from being a nonexistent victim. He never told us to pray that we recover from having a nonexistent disease. He never told us to pray that we recover from being born a drunk. He would never ask us to pray a prayer that we are powerless to obey, when he already told us that obedience is ALWAYS an option over disobedience (Romans 1:21 says that NONE are with excuse). He never told us to pray that we will always be in a perpetual state of being a “recovering alcoholic”, so Lord, help me stay in a state of recovery, but never be FREE or delivered. He never told us to pray that we recover when he already told us to repent. I did a search for the word recovery throughout the entire Bible. It always meant either property or land being recovered, or recovering from a physical disease, so that recovery meant being restored to a previous state of being healthy physically. Never once did it refer to behavior or recovering from what comes out of the heart of man. Never!!
Phl 4:6 Be careful (anxious) for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Phl 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
If we do this how does this leave any room or any need for AA, THRIVE, PDC, CGM, SHAPE, Temperament Tests (based on theories of Occultist and atheist Carl Jung), or Celebrate Recovery? Note further that the peace of God exceeds understanding, or leaning unto your own understanding. So at best, even with hidden knowledge of ourselves revealed to our understanding, we are still left with only our understanding which can NOT release the peace of God. So our hope of peace is crippled on both counts and can never walk if gleaned from any form of Psychology or Anonymous Group.
FOR COMPLETE REPORT AND ENTIRE CHAPTER 8 EXPOSE OF CELEBRATE RECOVERY:
Who’s Driving The Purpose Driven Church Chapters 8-11
OTHER RECOMMENDED RESOURCES EXPOSING CELEBRATE RECOVERY
A WAY THAT SEEMETH RIGHT:
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/2568
WHY I REJECTED RECOVERY PROGRAM:
http://www.exdrunkard.com/reject.html
TESTIMONY OF CELEBRATE RECOVERY ATTENDERS AND VICTIMS WHO WERE IN PROGRAM FOR YEARS:
CELEBRATE RECOVERY VS. ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS CHART
Rejoice Now in The Netherlands:
http://www.rejoicenow.nl/page/celebrate-recovery-heresy
EXPOSING CELEBRATE RECOVERY
By Barney Clynch:
http://www.12stepexposure.com/
Two questions for CELEBRATE RECOVERY program participants:
Which one of the 12 Steps in Celebrate Recovery contain the Blood of Jesus, without which there is no way you can draw near to Christ?
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which be bath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water ”
Hebrews 10 19-22.
2. “Recovery” presumes by its own title that there is something to recovery to..i.e. a previous state. But Christians don’t want to return to anything in the old man there is nothing there to recover. The old man is dead. All you do with AA and Celebrate Recovery is prune a dead tree…all you have left is a stump…but it is still dead. But if you repent, you become a New Creation all things become new (not recovered)…plus is recovering a constant endless process in CR as it is in AA where you never escape being an alcoholic even if you never drink a drop the rest of your life, you remain in a perpetual state of bondage. But this is not what the Bible teaches when a person is born again and passes from death unto life and darkness into light. I repented (ONE STEP) from alcohol and was set free!
http://knowgodsword.wordpress.com/sermons/forever-celebrating-recovery/
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTIONS
BY BARNY CLYNCH
07/15/2011
The following link is provided as evidence firsthand how Rick Warren introduces Celebrate Recovery in “his own words”. The link is taken from the official CR website. A few comments follow:
http://www.celebraterecovery.com/?page_id=1916
Here is what Rick says in the opening paragraph:
“The Bible clearly states “all have sinned.” It is my nature to sin, and it is yours too. None of us is untainted. Because of sin, we’ve all hurt ourselves, we’ve all hurt other people, and others have hurt us. This means each of us need repentance and recovery
in order to live our lives the way God intended.”
The very few opening statements actually sound good at first until Rick does two things:
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTION #1
1. He brings up the issue of “hurts”. The terminology he uses for “hurts” is part of CR’s watered-down terminology for “sin” as “hurts, habits, and hang-ups”. He started out Biblical by introducing sin but then proceeds to contradict himself by introducing “hurts”. In his introduction, he repeatedly uses the phrase “hurts, habits, and hang-ups” instead of “sin”.
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTION #2
2. He says, “Each of us need repentance and recovery”. Rick, explain to me in appropriate Biblical terms how a person can accurately “repent” AND “recover” at the same time? Repentance of sin focuses on the “here and now”. It takes immediate responsibility for any sins of the past, forsakes those sins entirely, and presses forward by faith. “Recovery” focuses entirely on the past. People in 12 step recovery programs including Celebrate Recovery are given an indication they must repeatedly “return to their past” in order to heal themselves “in the present”. To put the terms “repentance” and “recovery” in the same sentence is contradictory. It is like attempting to mix oil and water. The two terms are in direct opposition to each other.
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTION #3
Rick Warren makes the following claim about the nature of the Celebrate Recovery program, “What we need is a biblical and balanced program to help people overcome their hurts, habits and hang-ups.Celebrate Recovery is that program.Based on the actual words of Jesus rather than psychological theory, our recovery program is unique, and more effective in helping people change than anything else I’ve seen or heard of.”
Rick claims, “Based on the actual words of Jesus rather than psychological theory”. However, in an investigation conducted by The Berean Call ministry at Celebrate Recovery’s 2005 summit conference, listen to what T.A. Macmahon discovered about this claim by Rick Warren, “CR is highly promoted as completely biblical and not psychological, yet the key speakers for CR Summit 2005 were clinical psychologists Drs. John Townsend and Henry Cloud. Psychologist David Stoop, the editor of Life Recovery Bible (CR participants’ mandatory paraphrase Bible, polluted with psychotherapy commentary), is a favorite speaker at Saddleback’s CR Large Group meetings. The CR leadership manual advises, “Have Christian psychotherapists volunteer their time to help instruct and support your leaders.”4 You can’t have it both ways, Rick Warren. You simply have made one claim which was proven to be nothing more than an outright contradiction in its exposure.
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTION #4
Additionally, Rick claims the following feature of Celebrate Recovery, “This recovery program addresses all types of habits, hurts and hang-ups. Some recovery programs deal only with alcohol or drugs or another single problem. But Celebrate Recovery is a “large umbrella” program under which a limitless number of issues can be dealt with. At Saddleback Church, only one out of three who attend Celebrate Recovery are dealing with alcohol or drugs. We have dozens of other specialized groups too.” “Hurts, habits, and hang-ups” are psychological terms used by psychologists and psychotherapists to counsel their clients. Again, Rick Warren has contradicted himself by using psychological terminology instead of addressing behaviors as “sin” according to God’s word, the Bible. Interestingly, addressing a person’s “hurts” focuses on a person’s past which plain and simple equalizes the correct definition of “recovery” when God’s word instructs us to press forward and not dwell upon our past (see note on #2 under “This recovery program is based on God’s word”).
Rick Warren also says, “This recovery program is based on God’s Word, the Bible. When Jesus taught the Sermon on the Mount, he began by stating “Eight Ways to Be Happy.” Today we call them the Beatitudes. From a conventional viewpoint, most of these statements didn’t make sense. They sounded like contradictions. But when you fully understand what Jesus is saying, you’ll realize that these eight principles are God’s road to recovery, wholeness, growth, and spiritual maturity.”
The recovery program is based on God’s word, the Bible? I have a very difficult time accepting that statement considering the following:
1. Several days ago, I sent an e-mail exposing the distortions of the 12 steps and Biblical comparisons. A “Biblically-based, Christ-centered” program does not distort Biblical scripture by incorrectly placing scriptures where they do not belong and entirely misintrepreting their meanings using the 12 steps.
2. Additionally, if it was truly based on God’s word, members would be encouraged to constantly move forward in their walk with Jesus Christ, not repeatedly focusing on the past. 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Philippians 3: 12-13 make it clear we should not dwell on the past in order to get to where we need to be in Jesus Christ.
3. A point which will be briefly discussed shortly is that this program has components of psychology and psychotherapy involved. A program cannot be based on God’s word that utilizes psychotherapy in small group settings, not to mention that the CR program itself has simply taken psychological concepts from Carl Jung and Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous.
CELEBRATE RECOVERY CONTRADICTION #5
Rick Warren also says, “This recovery program is forward-looking. Rather than wallowing in the past, or dredging up and rehearsing painful memories over and over, Celebrate Recovery focuses on the future. Regardless of what has already happened, the solution is to start making wise choices now and depend on Christ’s power to help me make those changes.
As mentioned at the start, the term “recovery” is meant to repeatedly focus on one’s past. An illustration – I recently saw a sign in my hometown in front of the parking lot to the electric department. It was a sign for “The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.” The idea is that America must “recover” from the financial mistakes of its past in order to reinvest and get back to where it needs to be financially. How can a program be “forward-looking” when it repeatedly holds members accountable for past sins and conduct?
Rick Warren claims, “This recovery program emphasized spiritual commitment to Jesus Christ. The 3rd principle calls for people to make a total surrender of their lives to Christ. Lasting recovery cannot happen without this step. Everybody needs Jesus. Celebrate Recovery is thoroughly evangelistic in nature. In fact, the first time I took our entire church through this program over 500 people prayed to receiver Christ on a single weekend. It was an amazing spiritual harvest. And during the ten week series that I preached to kick-off this program, our attendance grew by over 1,500 people! Don’t be surprised if this program becomes the most effective outreach ministry in your church. Today, nearly 73% of the people who’ve been through Celebrate Recovery have come from outside our church. Changed lives always attract others who want to be changed.”
“Lasting recovery” cannot occur without total “surrender”? How do you expect people to totally “surrender” their lives to Jesus Christ when they are told they will never, ever “recover” from their past? People who do totally surrender their lives to Jesus Christ once and for all are completely forgiven of their sins (read Hebrews 10:14) – they have recovered once and for all, and any attempts to constantly bring up their past is nothing more than a tactic of Satan to keep them in bondage to their sins.
Rick boasts how 500 people prayed to “receive Christ” as their personal Savior the first time he took the entire church through the program. He then claims how the attendance numbers skyrocketed to 1,500. Sadly, the truth is that this is just one example of the “fruit” of modern evangelistic techniques. It is safe to say the majority of those 500 people who “prayed to receive Christ” backslid and were nothing more than false converts. I am not saying that is true of every single one of the 500 people who prayed, but making a “quick-decision” for Jesus is not Biblical. The attendance growth was over 1,500? Rick, are you more interested in numbers or are you more interested in the number of people who are genuinely and soundly converted in Jesus Christ? From your claims, it seems you are more interested in the “numbers game”. Larger numbers have never proven to equalize the number of people who are faithfully serving the Lord. In fact, the truth is the exact opposite. Most people today who make “quick decisions” for Jesus Christ fall away entirely, and many churches cannot account for the many converts who left their churches due to a watered-down gospel message.
RW also says, “73% of the people who’ve been through Celebrate Recovery have come from outside the church.” Where did he obtain this statistic? Where and how was this data obtained? Furthermore, since he doesn’t state precisely how this statistic was obtained, is the percentage truly accurately representative of the more than 4,500 churches that host a CR ministry? Let us also look at the phrase “outside the church.” Does he mean “outside” the Christian church as a whole or simply outside the specific churches where individual CR ministries are operated? Sorry to say, but during my 2 1/2 years in Celebrate Recovery, no one in CR ever polled me to find out if I was from outside the specific church where the CR ministry was operated. Likewise, I never recall the leaders of the CR ministries where I attended ever taking a poll to discover and validate this statistical claim of Rick Warren.
Any ministry that is truly “Biblical” and “Christ-centered” will ONLY use the Bible as the final authority – not the 12 steps, not psychological professional authority, and certainly not psychotherapeutic techniques.
*****
JAN WARD IS NOW OFFICIALLY BANNED FROM POSTING ON THIS WEBSITE
I am open to posting someone with an opposing view. But to ignite me to approve it, I have to see documented evidence any of us have born false witness or any Scripture to refute any points made. She has done neither, but simply goes on rant after rant with ad hominem attacks and insults, refuses correction, and refuses to repent. So unless and until she provides proof anyone on this blog has slandered and she supplies Scripture to refute any of the Scriptures or posts that Celebrate Recovery principality is not riddled with false teachings, and stumbling the least of these my children, or she capitulates with total repentance, she is officially banned from posting on this website. The attacks of Jan Ward without proof or evidence of charges is typical of all Purpose Driven Pastors and disciples of Rick Warren…not just with his Celebrate Recovery.
Jan Ward has made serious charges against posters on this blog. She should not wonder why we might not post her attacks, since proof of her charges are without evidence. Slanderers will not enter the kingdom and bearing false witness against a brother is an abomination to the Lord:
Pro 12:22 Lying lips [are] abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly [are] his delight.
1Cr 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Sincerely in Christ,
James Sundquist
Director
*****
DISCLAIMER: Rock Salt Publishing was founded by author James Sundquist as a volunteer discernment ministry to assist those who have been affected by the abuse of ecclesiastical power or false doctrine. The contents of all of the emails, articles, blogs, books and broadcasts have been researched very thoroughly and carefully. Where applicable, both documentation and supportive Scripture references are provided. It is a very serious matter to bring charges against any organization or individual, and therefore if anyone reading these charges is able to substantiate that they are false, please bring this to our attention.
Global Peace Plan in Chinese
Who is Driving Purpose Driven
Below was submitted by “John D. Shelton”
Numbered brackets added for referencing below – {} -
{34}What someone thinks is called an “opinion”,
{33}What God has done for you and me is indisputable truth.
{32}Why the debate about Celebrate Recovery?
{31}CR is a global ministry with testimonies of {30}change and families restored that are countless. {29}The numbers of {28}people who walk {27}in freedom AND are now serving {26}their purpose in the kingdom is in the thousands.
{25}Please disprove this if you can. {24}I know the names and can direct you to them.
{23}Come to the Summit at Saddleback in August…{22}you’re going to be very busy and frustrated convincing 4000 CR leaders {21}they’re not free of the past, {20}their change is not of the Holy Spirit, {19}and they are not thriving in spiritual maturity.
{18}Regarding Celebrate Recovery’s 12 Steps:
{17}CR’s 12 steps are simply a tool for helping people find clarity in the chaos. {16}(Especially in the newcomer’s current state of mind.) {15}When a newcomer walks in the door, things are usually not going well and they are BEGGING for simple, easy to understand direction.
Telling other people that {14}CR is not biblical, {13}that it’s a burden, {12}or that it doesn’t work is absurd is not the truth.
{11}My Advice/Opinion:
{10}If a person is keying in on disproving a ministry that produces this much fruit, run for your life!
{9}This personality is motivated by pride and arrogance, seeking to elevate themselves above successful ministry leaders. {8}They can’t make their case in short, simple phrases because mistruths take a lot of work to “support”. {7}They set confusion into the air with wordy arguments… {6}notice comments where people stated they were “confused” after reading arguments that {5}“CR is not Biblical”.
{4}No matter what their spin, how intellectual they seem, or how many commentaries they offer …{3}they still have not explained away why CR has worked in thousands of lives in a {2}spiritual manner.
{1}Go to CR, find out for yourself.
———————————————-
Response by Brian Kercheval:
A critical observation:
This post unfortunately is typical from those who are enamored with man-made programs and religion above Jesus himself. Said types will convey pseudo Bible teaching and boast freedom yet are void of any reference using sound Biblical knowledge, teaching nor will they point to Jesus, they only boast about a program and not The Lord.
Let us start with the bottom comments and work our way up. On this, please forgive the very brief responses. I will be quick and direct only without any form of a comprehensive format.
{1} “Go to CR, find out for yourself”
This is exactly what I have done.
After being directly involved for around two years, I almost started my own meeting. Only after looking at, and studying all of the teaching in Celebrate Recovery, only then did I see clearly that this was neither “Bible Based” nor “Christ Centered”. These two primary boasts became lies that I could not truthfully support.
{2} “spiritual manner”
This self-proclaimed “spiritual manner” is nothing more than following steps/rules and a mirage of twisted Bible verses interlaced with humanistic psychological rooted philosophy.
{3} “explained away why CR has worked in thousands”
The operative word here is “worked”. I must give an accurate and tempered insight to my view. What I know is only some: I have witnessed/attended a relative few (perhaps 7) different meetings with an overall attendance of about 1,500 different people over the span of two years. During this time I have studied the efficacy regarding the primary goals of CR. Contrary to what one may preconceive; CR is a safe, caring and supportive place for those especially with hard addictions to really on for support and help. I see undisputable growth in The Lord in [some] CR attendees but, (in short) because of the overall teaching there remains on most only a thin veneer of Jesus barely held on by the glue of the religion of recovery. My overview is: God can and does work through such programs but it is not “because” of the program, only “despite” of it.
{4} “No matter what”
This is always a ploy for those who will side step the truth; simply accuse others of exactly what you are already doing.
{5} “CR is not Biblical”
Of course CR is not Biblical. Taking a very few scripture out of context then forcing them onto non-Biblical concepts and creating works is a syncretism, and is the farthest thing from being Biblical.
{6} “people stated they were ‘confused’”
There is confusion only when one is distracted from honest Biblical truth by telling them “recovery is the way” and as Rick Warren boasts publicly “everyone needs recovery” What a lie strait from the pit of hell! The Bible is clear on this; Everyone needs Jesus and Jesus only for all things.
{7} “wordy arguments”
When there is a “wordy” topic like these false teaching, people will receive understanding after the false teaching is addressed.
{8} “They can’t make their case in short, simple phrases because mistruths take a lot of work to “support”
So let me make it “short” Jesus did not teach anything even similar to the 12 steps. Therefore: To teach this as “the very words of Jesus” as boasted by Rick Warren and in the CR curriculum is one of the most obvious and eternally damming lies.
{9} “This personality is motivated by”
My heart and whole being is actually “motivated” by God’s love for me and you. In the future you may find your immature comment disgusting.
{10} “disproving a ministry that produces this much fruit”
What fruit? Where? If one is led by The Holy Spirit, they would have as stated in The Bible the fruit of the spirit. I see mostly a fake, plastic fruit, a pretend version of God’s power.
This is true Biblical fruit:
Galatians 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. NOW THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST JESUS HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH WITH ITS PASSIONS AND DESIRES.
The list of the fruit of the Spirit describes an emotionally balanced, psychologically stable person. Because the Holy Spirit produces this naturally, why would anyone turn to worldly psychology and CR?
{11} “My Advice/Opinion”
Everyone’s perspective is always welcome; this can be a great starting place to grow. When it comes to directing a life, we must rely solely on God’s word and His Holy Spirit.
{12} “it doesn’t work is absurd is not the truth”
It’s nice to boast about some program but when one is led by the real Holy Spirit, there is absolutely no need whatsoever for such things, there never has been!
{13} “that it’s a burden”
Your right, it’s not a burden; this teaching is life sentence towards something you cannot achieve by perfect implementation of your works of steps and principles.
{14} “CR is not biblical”
There is nothing, anywhere in the entire Bible that remotely resembles the teaching of the 12 steps or recovery. There is nothing to recover because no one ever had it…
{15} “When a newcomer… easy to understand direction”
Only Jesus made it “easy” He always stated “repent” and “come to me” over and over. He never stated; work the step/work the principles/work the program/ work this/work that/ focus on your problems/read all of this and that/get a sponsor…
Jesus Says:
Mat11:28
“[Come to Me], all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart,
and you will find rest for your souls. “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
{16} “newcomer’s current state of mind”
My heart goes out to help those confused especially through alcohol and other drugs. What I have found is only The Lord Himself can and does direct those that are wade down by anything. He alone is All Mighty and alone He breaks through any barrier. This is a time where being truly led by His Spirit is critical for the well-being of those in need.
{17} “CR’s 12 steps are simply a tool for helping people find clarity in the chaos”
Sorry but all of Celebrate Recovery is pure chaos.
{18} “Regarding Celebrate Recovery’s 12 Steps”
Yes, regarding these “Steps” Do you have any idea where these 12 steps actually, truly came from. From a guy that channels demons, this according to his own book. Later, these demons would come and go as they pleased, according to him. Does that sound like the type of teacher you want to follow? Are you sure?
1 Timothy 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons…
{19} “not thriving in spiritual maturity”
Of course they are not spiritually mature. If they were, there would be no place whatsoever for these recovery false teachings in their life.
{20} “their change is not of the Holy Spirit”
That is correct; their change is not of the Holy Spirit. If it were the fruit of The Spirit would be present.
“Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” Instead, out of the mouth of every one of them I hear; My name is___ I STRUGGLE WITH____ That is the opposite of being mature in The Lord.
{21} “they’re not free of the past”
Even the founder Baker still acknowledges by testimony that “I struggle with alcoholism” It is obvious then that no one, even the founder has been set free.
{22} “you’re going to be very busy and frustrated convincing 4000 CR leaders”
When I was directly involved in CR, I watch the entire summit including all of the testimonies. The most revealing (and disgusting) part was during every testimony, the same comment was proclaimed; If it wasn’t for CR my life… Each testimony boasted exclusively about CR and NOT ONE said a single thing about Jesus. I have had enough of listening to CR ramblings and their leaders boasts, and as a follower of Jesus their comments are sickening.
{23} “Come to the Summit”
How about everyone at the summit leaves their recovery religion and come to the real Jesus instead? That sounds better!
{24} “I know the names”
Yes and also do I. I have even contact some.
{25} “Please disprove this if you can”
Easy: Are they relying on Jesus for all things now and eternal? Do they need anything besides the real Jesus? If so they are hollow, or shallow, or most likely have no idea who the real Jesus is.
{26} “their purpose in the kingdom is in the thousands”
My, what extreme boasts and brags! I don’t believe a word of it!
{27} “in freedom AND are now serving”
Excuse me but following a huge manual filled with psychobabble and scripture distortions is not free. Not even close…
{28} “people who walk”
Perhaps you may be referring to steps? Whose, which or witch steps?
Whose steps are you following anyway? Pick one!
a) Wilson and Smith
b) Baker and Warren
c) Jesus: To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in HIS STEPS. 1Pe 2:21
{29} “The numbers of”
If I were impressed by number, I would pick Buddha, the pope or even Joseph Smith, never Baker/Warren CR.
{30} “change and families restored that are countless”
I have seen up close some families change. Participants enamored with the recovery teachings truly always carry a self-righteousness that is indescribably massive.
{31} “CR is a global ministry”
I think we all know what CR is and isn’t.
{32} “Why the debate about Celebrate Recovery?”
People are being misled to a fake Jesus, a false gospel and a self-sanctification.
{33} “What God has done for you and me is indisputable truth”
Actually, The Bible makes it clear that only through the Holy Spirit directly can we know and understand what “truth” is. A start in real discernment is to understand what The Bible says and rely on it exclusively as final authority on all matters.
{34} “What someone thinks is called an ‘opinion’”
John Shelton,
It’s been a pleasure responding to your “opinion” about these matters. I hope that people would turn to Jesus the way He describes in the Bible never some man-made cheap imitation like CR.
Note:
The Holy Spirit cannot be achieved through any: steps; principles; methods; procedures; programs; techniques; factions; systems; approaches; guidelines; philosophies; platforms; doctrines; psychologies; etc. The Holy Spirit is a free gift given exclusively to those who have repented, are born again, worship and follow Jesus as Lord, abide exclusively in Him and are called according to His purpose.
Jesus did not teach any “program”. He never imposed “steps”, “principles” and procedures onto anyone. No special sponsors, no special sinners faction groups; He never asked anyone to introduce themselves with regard to a repented sin. Jesus did not establish any of this!
So why would anyone commit these teachings?
Either:
1) One must believe that Jesus does not have the power that He states
2) The real Jesus is not known
With the love of The Lord,
Brian Kercheval
How do you explain the 1000s of testimonies of restored families, lives, and people fulfilling their roles in the Kingdom as a result of their CR? Have you spent time with them to know their hearts? Are they saved? How did they change…on their own? Do you know that hey dont turn to the Word for the answers? HOw much time have you spent with them?
Answer those questions and Ill never go to CR again…I promise.
Have people been wounded by people in CR, of course. People are involved. The Bible says your own church has people who have messed up in the ministry..is your church bad?
CR states clearly in weekly announcements to the groups: CR is not the church. We encourage you to find and serve in your own home church. CR is a tool for helping people break self-destructive cycles using the Word of God.
That’s a cult? I’ve never heard of a cult that states clearly they are not the church and they encourage to find and serve in a home church.
Instead of deleting, can you answer any of these questions?
What is your story of redemption through Christ?
@Miguel Hayworth
Jesus never taught us to drive cars, but they’re tools we use to get to church.
Let me ask you: How do you explain my life changing through CR? My passion for Jesus and His purposes in the earth? How thanks to CR, the Bible is the final authority on all matters in my life?, Or Jessica Browns redemption? Or Brad Rutledge? Or His wife Renee? Or their daughters? Or Mac Owens? Or Mary Owens? Or John Bakers? How many hours have you spent with these names to assess they are not healed and if they are, it wasnt through CR? Or that they are not Holy Spirit lead? Or that they are saved or not saved?
The problem with your arguments are: They don’t explain away the fruit. The indisputable truth.
If CR were fruitless, bound to one culture, or some other sign of humanism, I’d say your expelling energy to a just cause. But the lives and families restored are real.
Again, I challenge you to explain the friut way. Come to our CR. You’re always welcome.
@Brian Kercheval
@Miguel Hayworth
BTW I no longer work in this feild.
I will introduce myself on here, My name is Miguel Hayworth, and I used to work in Psychology for 8 years http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/MiguelHayworth/
My work included in the past
To train Clinical Psychologists, and students, advising on the needs and views of people using specific parts of the Health Service,to improve the fit between what people want and what Services are provided. Part of my role, as a member of the Community Liaison Group (CLG,) is to advise Clinicians, students and the Academic Course Team with regards to the Post Graduate Curriculum in order to better improve health services within the following subjects.
Adult Mental Health
Child Mental Health
Working with People with Learning Disabilities
Physical Health Services.
My role also is to collaborate with external agencies, i.e. other Universities, Health Care Trusts, Strategic Health Authority, Mental Health Professionals, people involved in research, selection skills, public speaking, chairing meetings, and planning small projects.
I am also involved in setting up of e-learning within the department.
I am a member of the University Psychology Department Board sub-committee, and take part in the decision making process within the Faculty.
I also participate in the Postgraduate Student selection process, interviewing prospective candidates who are seeking to gain entrance onto courses, and the final decison making process of selection.
Outside of the University I have been raising awareness of Dyspraxia in adults and the issues surrounding varied disabilities which are neurologically based, but are often misunderstood as being a mental health issue by the wider society.
CR was part of our push to impact recovery methods used by the means of psychological services it is claimed through official government documentation that Psychology has by the most part been the root of pushing recovery through methods such as mindfulness used in CBT.
Though I covered mostly on Carl Gustov Jung as this was who the University of Manchester Majored on, I do not believe that statistically just because the evidence is conclusive to prove that people are “benefiting” from the use of these clinical methods groups like the WHO or the BPS etc are not showing the full story when it comes to why most of the psychological methods in the past failed.
in comparison to those who did not fail in their treatment to impact recovery, I cannot agree that CR compliments the Bible it rather contradicts scripture.
Because it is rooted in Secular and liberal philosophies .
What someone thinks is called an “opinion”,
What God has done for you and me is indisputable truth.
Why the debate about Celebrate Recovery?
CR is a global ministry with testimonies of change and families restored that are countless. The numbers of people who walk in freedom AND are now serving their purpose in the kingdom is in the thousands.
Please disprove this if you can. I know the names and can direct you to them.
Come to the Summit at Saddleback in August…you’re going to be very busy and frustrated convincing 4000 CR leaders they’re not free of the past, their change is not of the Holy Spirit, and they are not thriving in spiritual maturity.
Regarding Celebrate Recovery’s 12 Steps:
CR’s 12 steps are simply a tool for helping people find clarity in the chaos. (Especially in the newcomer’s current state of mind.) When a newcomer walks in the door, things are usually not going well and they are BEGGING for simple, easy to understand direction.
Telling other people that CR is not biblical, that it’s a burden, or that it doesn’t work is absurd is not the truth.
My Advice/Opinion:
If a person is keying in on disproving a ministry that produces this much fruit, run for your life!
This personality is motivated by pride and arrogance, seeking to elevate themselves above successful ministry leaders. They can’t make their case in short, simple phrases because mistruths take a lot of work to “support”. They set confusion into the air with wordy arguments…notice comments where people stated they were “confused” after reading arguments that “CR is not Biblical”.
No matter what their spin, how intellectual they seem, or how many commentaries they offer …they still have not explained away why CR has worked in thousands of lives in a spiritual manner.
Go to CR, find out for yourself.
@Catalina
Regarding CR;
There is nothing “Christ centered” nor “Bible based” about distorting the context of, and turning a handful of scriptures into works. Neither Jesus nor His disciples taught anything even similar to the 12 steps, not even close.
Jesus alone and by the power of The Holy Spirit is all sufficient for our every need both now and forever.
Relying on programs, step, principles, sponsors will directly take the place of what The Holy Spirit does. When one understands this, instantly you will know that there is no room in ones life to follow these man-made teachings.
Glory to God that we can (and must) rely on Him directly and only!
Blessings in The Lord!
Brian
Below, “Jeff” points at:
“I was never discipled by any church” “bible foundation” “I find the church” “Most churches” “professional clergy” “they can only”
Jesus says:
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. Jhn 5:39-40
For clarity:
One must go to The Lord directly, never relying on what this writer stated – “church” “clergy” “bible foundation” “they”
I see this continually, steppers ranting about popular Christian types of activities and referencing (people, places and things) but I never once heard or read about a stepper coming to The Lord the only way Jesus himself states we must [directly/exclusively].
Consideration:
Notice this writers direct comments regarding what he considers “church” “clergy” “bible foundation” “they”?, there is no direct reference nor any form of explanation. Therefore one must consider this broad brush of verbiage usage. There is no knowledge given on what “church”, what “clergy”, what a “bible foundation” truly means or who “they” are exactly. These types of comments are not unlike loose cannons, recklessly hitting anything they can without purpose or target. Because this testimony is void of pertinent facts or knowledge, it should be discarded, considered worthless and without meaning.
Comment:
Clearly, stated by Jesus in Jhn 5:39-40 even the most scripture studied individuals and church attenders will have missed everything if they do not go to Him directly, exclusively and rely on Him only.
It is pure folly to listen to anyone who tells you about finding Jesus by attending “church” and or rely on “clergy” and or attempt a form of “bible foundation” or any form reliance on people – places – things. This is not what Jesus proclaims!!! He says one must go to Him only and directly for life, and life more abundant! Everyone must rely on and have faith in Jesus only, never relying on a church or clergy as Jeff attempted.
[If] one has faith and relies on these things listed below, there is a great chance they have no idea of who the real Jesus is. Why? By implementing the 12 steps into one’s life they by practice deny the power, authority and the teachings of Jesus.
Do you need these things?
• the special AA 12 steps is the actual foundation;
• and the special recovery CR steps slopped over the top;
• and special recovery meetings;
• and special recovery bibles;
• and special recovery principles;
• and special recovery teaching;
• and special recovery sub programs;
• and special recovery groups;
• and special recovery sponsors;
• and special recovery psychologically based teaching;
• and special recovery testimonies;
• and special recovery friends;
Really?
You may want to keep in mind these facts:
a) Jesus never taught anything similar in any way to the 12 steps.
b) His Disciples never taught anything similar in any way to the 12 steps.
c) Throughout all of The Scriptures there is nothing, ever, taught even anything similar in any way to the 12 steps and recovery teachings…
d) There is no such thing anywhere in The Bible that remotely teaches “recovery” Why? Because we all, having been born into sin have absolutely nothing to recovery in any way.
Col 2:8-10:
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
With the love of The Lord!
Brian Kercheval
I am glad I am reading this blog…I googled Celebrate Recovery and Psycology and it brought this up. My hhusband has been delaing with Drug addiction and Alcoholism all of his adult life. He has done many step programs and has tried recovery many times to no avail. We are Christians and he does not seem to grow much at al ever…It is a long story…anyhow I was looking at Celebrate Recovery as an option and out 23 year old son who just graduated from a Christian College (PCC) and is in ministry said to me…mom that sounds like Psycology and I went Hmmmmm, so I am glad to find this…It is all so confusing : )
As a former sex addict, out of church for over 10 years, I was never discipled by any church I ever attended CR gave me a place to unfold my junk and also get a bible foundation that put Jesus as the source for my recovery, I am now finishing Bible School and hope to go on the Mission Field. I find the church as a whole Anonymous as they can only direct those in dire need to counseling. CR offers a bible foundation to allow the Holy Spirit to unfold your junk and learn biblical principals. Most churches don’t offer a place to repent, or disciples. CR is filling that void, because most professional clergy dont want to get dirty with that walking out part men and women have of their salvation. The sick need a doctor, sounds like your in the club med of Christian circles.
Below does require Biblical study, actual study…
Understand what we are taught in Galatians 5:22-24 and test this natural byproduct “The fruit of Holy Spirit” against the spirit of recovery. Note: Strict adherence to steps will generate a fake fruit, a self-righteousness that is only a topical transformation while The Holy Spirit will by default produce this true fruit of following Jesus, a true transformation from the inside out, not the outside inwards. Although steps may seem to be a suitable method for following Jesus, they are not. The Bible states this very clearly on how we are to be directly led by His Spirit and not some work book.
Excerpts from:
http://megas-houtos-agape.blogspot.com
-Celebrate recovery is a man-made burden of works/steps and is not of The Lord, nowhere in The Bible does Jesus nor His disciples teach anything similar. The 12 step foundation supersedes Gods anointing Holy Spirit power and the teaching of the Bible with psychology and works. The CR faction, via their works, will always fail to accomplish what The Holy Spirit alone achieves. Everything that CR tries to accomplish is found wanting compared to the natural byproduct of The Holy Spirit alone. “The fruit of the Spirit” is caused exclusively from His anointing, a gift from God and seen only in true believers in Jesus. This true anointing cannot be worked for nor achieved by any form of works, steps, principals or anything else. Therefore, true spiritual growth happens because of Gods will and power, according to His grace and purpose, not the CR works/steps, lest any man should boast. This is the difference between those pretending to be a Christian and trying to act spiritual via “works and steps” or actually being a Christian and having His anointing displaying Gods “grace and power”.-
By Brian Kercheval
Galatians 5:22-24
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.”
-The list of the fruit of the Spirit describes an emotionally balanced, psychologically stable person. Because the Holy Spirit produces this naturally, why would anyone turn to worldly psychology and CR?-
By Steven J. Cole
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Time to grow in The Lord and get our minds off of “hurts, hang-up, habits” and solely on Jesus, like The Bible commands us.
Col 3:2-3 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
With the love of The Lord!
Brian
I have never been involved with other “anonymous” programs, so I do not know how they work. However, I will say that my experience with Celebrate Recovery is that the people in my group are there because they HAVE repented and are no longer practicing the sin they are in recovery from. They just recognize that they need people that have struggled with the same issues to be there to help them avoid sinning in the future and/or to help restore them if they fall again.
As to your questions:
Question 1: Where is the blood of Christ? – No person, church or program can save you. It can only point out your need for salvation and direct you where to find it. While the 12 Steps in and of themselves do not outline the plan of salvation, the lessons that are part of the CR Curriculum do. About once a month the “sinner’s prayer” or at least something with all the elements of the sinner’s prayer – I have sinned, Jesus died and rose for my sins, I am sorry for my sins and accept Jesus sacrifice for me, and I want to change and live my life as God wants me to – is read so that newer participants have the opportunity to accept Jesus.
Question 2: Recovery or new man? (forgive me if this is not the question, you did not actually have a question mark in your second section of the “questions”) – While spiritually I am a new person, I still live in the old sin body. The old sin body still wants to do what it has done before. Through recovery, I can change my automatic responses to temptation and trials. While God can remove all desire for past things, He does not always do so. Sometimes He allows us to have a “thorn” like Paul, that we have to work to overcome. We are in recovery when we “do not grow tired in well doing.” We need to continue to work on that recovery until we “reap the harvest.”
Now for my story, so you can understand where I am coming from. About 18 months ago, I was suicidal. I am a Christian and have been for many years and did not attempt suicide because I know it is a sin. However, I recognized that I needed to change something in my life to help me not give into the suicidal thoughts. Would you say that I am sinning – or do I have a condition I need to recover from? I think I need to recover, not be confronted by church leaders for thoughts I had but never had any intention of acting on.
A large part of what drew me to CR was that I could be anonymous. While now I am willing to tell my church about my struggles with depression, I do not think I would have been if I hadn’t first being able to share my struggles others with similar issues and the promise of anonymity.
I still attend CR because having a safe place to share what is going on in my life is important. I guess I could go to my pastor or counseling, but for me the people in my CR are my “church family.” They are the ones that encourage me, hold me accountable and yes help restore me when I fall into any sin. I do the same for them. Just because I do not know their last names does not change that. Also, CR’s confidentiality and anonymity are not absolute. The guidelines specifically provide anonymity and confidentiality”…except when someone threatens to harm themselves or others.”
Jesus saves me, but like Paul “For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want!” I see “recovery” as striving to overcome my sin nature and do what God wants. While it is not the only way to change, and I agree there are a few minor doctrinal issues; this does not mean that it is not a good program and that it cannot help people. CR has helped me grow as a Christian, and I think people should try it before they dismiss it as a “cult.”
Trista,
It is commendable that you, though life has dealt you much hardship, are nevertheless seeking truth, wisdom, and freedom. May our loving Creator surround you with His love, comfort, and guidance in your search, and may He reveal His own majestic, infinitely-wondrous, and compassionate character to you so that you can walk in the peace and beauty which He extends through Christ.
I write to you as one who has experienced a hard, but also wonderful, exciting journey in the Lord who has taught me many things because I chose to go straight to His Word to find healing, hope, and Truth there. I have found those, plus all sorts of riches in the Word, because I have continuously found HIM there, and I continue to get to know Him better and better. As I’ve done this, I quit worldly pursuits so that I could better devote my time to putting His Word to practice, thus obeying what He, though His Word and Spirit, was calling me to do: To further Christ’s Gospel of Deliverance (Salvation and Freedom) with all my heart and effort. From this heart, I write to you to encourage you.
First of all, for a pastor to respond to your need by saying that you have “the spirit of Jezebel” is not only silly, but disgusting. The “Jezebel” who was married to Ahab, a king of Israel (1 Kings 16:31), was a foreign woman who was very wicked and cruel and who worshipped a demon god. She, as a queen, helped lead Israel into increased idolatry and she was vehemently hostile to the Lord’s true prophets. The “Jezebel” in Rev. 2:20 was a false spiritual teacher who called herself a prophetess and also misled people into sin, also from her position of authority and from the doctrines taught to her from Satan himself. (v. 24) So do either of these women describe you? Pastors who use this phrase are often those who themselves are teaching “things taught by demons” (1 Tim. 4:1) and who are, deep down, immature and fearful men who are intimidated by anyone else who gives an opinion. Such men, though they are in denial of it, are “hypocritical liars” (v. 2), using the “Jezebel” term to frighten, confuse, and control people.
Celebrate Recovery is a cult because it offers a false way to be saved. It does this by offering a weak deliverance from sin (even while promising freedom) through a false method and a reliance upon man (other people). While mixing in some Truth so as to better deceive, it teaches many things that are contrary to Scripture, one being that Jesus does not really deliver us completely from sin (addictions, obsessions, phobias, etc.), but only partially, while mentors are the ones who are really our helpers, though even then, we will never be fully delivered until we die.
Jesus, on the other hand, tells us that for those who obey Him, abide in His words, and hold to HIS teachings (–all found in the Word of God), we walk in the Truth and are thus set completely free from sin’s mastery. (John 8:31-36) The whole Gospel teaches this doctrine and that’s why it’s called the Good News. (See Romans chapters 6 & 8 and 1 John chapter 3 for starters.)
Because we live in an evil world, and because we have a powerful enemy (the devil) who hates us, we must crucify the Self which served Satan and live out our new life within the life of the One who has already defeated Satan. (Gal. 2:20 & 5:24 // Col. 3:3-10) This Person is Christ Jesus. (Col. 2:15) If we are “born from above” (John 3:3-8), which is a necessity in order to enter and live in the Kingdom of God (same verses), then we must be clothed with, and have in us, He who is All-powerful. (1 John 4:4 & 5:4,5,18-20) Therefore, being born anew (being born into a new creation by the Holy Spirit) is the only way to live a life above our problems, as well as in full victory over the evil realm. (Luke 10:19 // Col. 2:10) We do this not by a method, but by being “in” Christ through whom we have sliced off from ourselves the sinful nature. (Col. 2:11,12)
For men to teach that men can help others who have “an eternal cancer” (sin which leads to sin’s penalty) is false. The only Cure is Jesus. And because Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1,14), we must (spiritually) eat Him by meditating on His words, the words which are “spirit and life.” (See John 6:63) Only by this will we remain in Christ so as to live the life abundant –that life which is freedom from the power of sin and the evil one (John 15:1-10 & 10:10 // 1 John 5:18), and that life which is, and leads to, eternal life. (John 6:53-58 // 1 John 5:20)
Compared to God’s, human wisdom and strength amounts to virtually nothing. (1 Cor. 1:25) In fact, it is worthless (Ps. 60:11 // Isa. 2:22) and putting one’s trust in it will bring on a curse. (Jer. 17:5) Abiding in a cursed thing, and on a cursed path, may seem exciting and helpful for a while, “but in the end it leads to death.” (Prov. 14:12)
Trista, I pray that you get a Bible (a good version, not a paraphrase), get alone with God, open it, ask Him to forgive you and free you of your sins, ask Him to lead you into all Truth, and then do all that you can to learn His Word and only what HE teaches. If you do this, you will come to possess the fantastic privilege of this: The Heavenly Father –He who is the Most Powerful Being and King of the universe– will be your God. And you will be His dearly-beloved, care-for child.
This is the direction which I, one of His grateful children, point you toward. I pray you choose to take it.
In Him,
Rachel
@trista smith
A good friend of mine has reviewed your post. Her name is Lorilee and everyone calls her Lolly. This Lolly would love for you to contact her on her facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/lolly.bee.92
Lolly is mature in The Lord as well as a huge joy to be around. Feel free to contact her, she really would love to talk. Be advised, she has an incredible sense of humor!
With the love of The Lord!
Brian
@trista smith
@trista smith
Trista,
God has shown us all His love and mercy by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Jesus was beaten and killed for us, He took our place receiving the punishment we deserve for our sins. Then He rose from the dead, fullfiling the prophecies proving He himself has power over death. Now, this is what is refered to as the Gospel “The Good News”:
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
Jhn 3:16-17
Jesus made the way, the only way to God where now we may have a direct relationship with Him as God’s very own Sons and Daughters. Jesus calls this being born again:
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Jhn 3:3
Jesus paid the price for all of our sins in full, it is up to each individual to ask for forgiveness and choose to believe in Him:
“…that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
Rom 10:9-10
We are to repent! This means turn from away from our previous sinful path and choose to follow Jesus. Jesus has a wonderful promise when we do this:
“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,…”
Act 3:19-20
These stated “times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord” I can testify as being real and true.
Trista,
simply ask God directly to guide you, when you read The Bible He will teach you. I also suggest that you aks a dear sister in The Lord for understanding, one that I know has The Holy Spirit guiding her. Rachel is a wonderful teacher, mature in The Lord and very well aquanted with CR and false teachings also.
https://knowgodsword.wordpress.com/about-2/
God is on your side! Go to Him and ask for forgiveness, turn to Jesus and ask to be born again and The Holy Spirit will fill you. God promises eternal life with Him, and He also promises to give you as a free gift life more abundant, a life with purpose and meaning as you worship Him.
With the love of The Lord always,
Brian
@trista smith
Trista, I am a friend of Brian’s I went through the same thing you are going through right now. The first step I took was PRAYER. Lots of it and often. I was in so much pain and so hopeless that I had nowhere else to turn so i gave up on my SELF. I turned all of the pain,anxiety, depression, all of it, over to Jesus. Here I am today. A year sober never going back to what I was.
Email me and I’ll tell you my story and help and support you where I can. Would love to hear from you. [email protected]
@trista
Trista, I am a friend of Brian’s. I went through the same thing that you’re going through. It was the pure love and mercy of The Lord that saved me. It took me hitting rock bottom and letting go of my self and giving my self to Him. The fear of withdrawing, the anxiety, pain, I put it all in His hands. The very first step I took was PRAYER.
Please email me and I’ll tell you the whole story and help you where I can: [email protected]
Take care.
brian,
i am 22 years old. i have struggled with drug abuse (prescription pain killers) for 5 yrs. i got involved in celebrate recovery 2 months ago because a friend suggested it. i am not sure what to think about it. i was not raised in church and have been in church a few times for funerals but that has been it. i am actually confused and not sure if it is helping or not. someone else told me it was a cult so i went and talked to a pastor about my problem and he said i didnt need celebrate recovery. he said i was possessed by “the spirit of jezabel”?? dont even know what that means. i am very very very confused brian. i saw this website because i was trying to get information on celebrate recovery. any advice you can give would be helpful. i am a young girl that is not real well educated. i graduated high school and that is it. i work as a waitress and it was just me and my mom growing up so i dont have anyone else. my mom been in and out of jail for last couple of years due to drugs so i cannot rely on her. i dont know where to go or who to turn to and i know zero about the bible or God. please write me back if you can. i need some direction or help from someone.
trista
Trusting that we worship the same God and have been freed from our sins by the blood of Jesus when we repent and ask for forgiveness. It’s really hard not to be judgemental towards those who scorn any ministry (not talking about traditional 12-step programs) that clearly point to the gospel as the only means of salvation and on-going recovery. Are there some programs which do not adhere to the guidelines? Certainly! But I came across this site while attempting to read about personal testimonies and recovery. What is yours? Somewhere you have been deeply hurt apparently. Encourage one another in faith. There are many in CR who can quote Scripture to back up their program. Writing a testimony requires it. I will not stoop to criticism or name-calling even as the Lord did. I personally believe in programs (this site included) if it awakens you to continue in your sobriety. Give control of your life to the One who created you.
@Rob
Sorry Rob but God never set up a special sinners group within The Body of Christ.
In fact, quite the opposite is true [Gal 5:20] [2Cr 12:20]. Any such group the scriptures denote as a faction and we are to renounce and expel all such things within The Church (all true believers and followers of Jesus)
There is another scriptural perspective regarding factions, but it is not pleasant:
” for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.” 1Cr 11:19
Please read The Bible and ask God to teach you on these matters.
Also you might try following along with the pure Biblical teaching presented by James Sundquist on the top of this page. Keep in mind, to side-step the truth on this is only to keep in step with the enemy. God’s word is clear on these matters and has been clearly presented in the Director Sundquist teachings.
Jesus Says:
“So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.” Luk 8:18
Take care how you listen, with the Love of The Lord,
Brian
I’ve tried researching CR thoroughly after my aunt and cousin started attending meetings. I wanted to know more about the program because my aunt was adamant about me getting into the program. However, a year before I had a nervous breakdown and spent two weeks in the hospital learning coping mechanisms and letting go of the past. No it wasn’t completely religious therapy, but I came out of it as a better person. Why? Because I had licensed and educated professionals helping me.
Today, more than five years since my aunt and cousin became a part of the CR cult, they dredge up the past constantly. Going as far back to include people who are no longer living and are unable to speak for themselves. They refuse to speak to anyone in the family, which to me, shows a lack of forgiveness. And to tell you the truth, I’m not even sure why they refuse to speak to us.
I have not seen my cousin’s family for over two years. How can CR call themselves biblically based if they condone this type of behavior. I don’t know how to fix this problem and it’s very frustrating.
<NICE!!! Sounds like a CR message. There is a group for people with pride issues.
-His incomparably great power for us who believe!-
I struggle with_____” =
A public manifestation of self-abasement and a confession based upon false-humility that is entrenched in superciliousness and pride for the purpose of displaying adherence towards a “recovery” perspective of denial and to promote the teachings of the 12 steps.
This stated “profession” is clearly the antitheses (opposite) to one who is led by the Holy Spirit and belongs to Christ Jesus:
Galatians 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. NOW THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST JESUS HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH WITH ITS PASSIONS AND DESIRES.
I suggest trusting Jesus with everything and go to Him directly, unencumbered by any man-made religious approaches: programs; steps; principles; guidelines; methods; techniques; factions; systems; philosophies; platforms; doctrines; psychologies; etc.
Below is writing from Paul. He was given care and compassion, desperately wanting those who follow Jesus know Him better.
Make no mistake, so do I:
Eph 1:17-23 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe…
By committing to any 12 step program; you get what you paid for.
By exclusively committing to Jesus; you receive what He paid for.
I was glad to find Celebrate Recovery after being ridiculed for believing in Jesus at AA meetings. Though I wanted to stop drinking, for me I needed God and a support group. I spent 10 months in AA, and now 4 months in Celebrate Recovery. For me, I want to be sober, not drink, or smoke cigarettes. I have been in CR long enough now to see that some people give up drugs but still drink, or claim a recovery date from sexual addiction but drink again and not start their recovery date over. That is odd to me.
I see drinking – for myself – as a sin because I tend to get drunk because my body craves more once I start drinking. And being a drunkard is a sin per the Bible. I also am the child of an alcoholic, who was the child of an alcoholic and so on…
I am repentant, and cautious, and grateful for sobriety.
@memama
Hbr 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.
memama
I can offer a strait forward and humble suggestion regarding your recent experiences and dilemmas: Move on if you see anything other than God as the designer and builder. Any other foundation and direction is a lying spirit and false teaching.
Remember, as believers in Jesus we must always take everything to The Lord:
Jam 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
May God give you peace and wisdom,
Brian
Part 2 = the church now includes a women who started a Rick Warren Celebrate recovery group and who is now head advisor to the current Pastor. She gave a sermon about “everything worthwhile” always ends in a circle? That animals circle to lay down. That the Bible has stories about circles. So many attendees that heard this sermon objected the sermon was never posted online or sold as a tape. Nevertheless! This women has risen in power to become top elder and Pastoral counsel.I have had some friends bring up the idea of “picketing” the church. Because it is on a main road through town. Or covering the chairs in the sanctuary with leaflets objecting to this take over. And Biblical references as to why the teachings are becoming ever more concerning and divisive. People who have left the church call it a Church Of Tares moving into emergent church doctrine. How does one react or object without being labeled The PROBLEM PERSON! When in reality it is the people now running the church. I hate church jump because it seems to be infecting every church in the entire area (same mystic prayers health wealth hybrid messages) P.S. The church also took “5″ large hand made crosses, placed them on the stage and had people write their sins on a 3×5 card. Then come forward and nail them down. Taking large hammers off a floor and pounding while the church was singing for 45 mins. This went on for 4 weeks. I came by the church for a bible study and walked into the sanctuary for an extra bulletin and then realized the crosses were leaning next to the doors(in the dark) and also laying on the floor for the whole world to see. Not locked up. You could read down the whole cross of “sins”. When I realized what it was? I fled…(and did not give into pressure to nail papers when this was going on every week) Sadly several other friends told me their churches had made up 4-5-6 crosses and done a “nail your sins to the cross” project and were infuriated instead of inspired. It seemed like a indictment if you did not run forward with numerous cards to nail down in front of everyone. They said they were going to PRAY about their sins and ask forgiveness in private. Is this what the church world now is? A show instead of learning Scripture…seeeesh
My local conservative Baptist church which some family/friends have attended for over 50 years. Got a new pastor(different denomination) who immediately launched into a series of sermons on “transformation” and used the word “renewal” in most discussions/sermons. Which has now evolved into Praying Scripture before any prayer. Which has been advised as the ONLY way to get God to tilt his head toward anyone’s prayers. Our family had a series of illness and did not attend over summer time. When we returned? A new teaching had sprang forth. The Pastor began a even newer teaching to “pray to the Holy Spirit” ONLY. He had already held an evening service lite by candles and insisted the Holy Spirit has been neglected. He said when the people prayed with this new formula he FELT VERY STRONGLY there was “a river flowing” over the room? He also held his hands up and said “people have a filter over their mind” and are ignorant and in fear if they do not accept this new teaching. Needless to say my family and friends feel the church has been stolen by a small inner circle of people that Pastor has handpicked. Almost none of the old members are attending now. They left in droves. Over the 1st elder board/pastoral firings and very unbiblical sermon series. Should we who are aghast at this new mystic prayer pastime (on thursday mornings the pastor is now teaching these new prayers for HOURS) and attend the new evening holyspirit-prayathons The Pastor has labeled “pray encounters” and object? Any advice?
Thank you, to the staff of “The Berean Call” for your helpful re-write on this:
“Recovery” – A Definition -
“A belief system syncretizing unbiblical, psychological and non-doctrinal religious teachings to achieve healing or sanctification of one’s life and addressing the consequences of past sins by a strict adherence to guidelines set forth through a number of steps or principles.”
——————————–
Remember,
The CR teaching above all boasts about how it is “Bible based” and “Christ centered”.
When one studies what is actually taught direct from the CR text, (and I did because after a couple of years being directly involved, I almost started my own meeting) the truth of these comments proves something quite different from their boasts.
How is this Christ centered or Biblically based?:
CR 342 “The solution is to become your own loving parent….You will recover the child within you, learning to accept and love yourself.”
And this is a humanistic and biblically FALSE statement:
CR 350 “Jesus taught….A love of self forms the basis for loving others…
Look closely (study), honestly (void of prejudice) and truthfully (Scripture as final authority) at what is taught. The actual teaching is heavily marbled with psychobabble non-sense and scripture distortions (including forcing non-Biblical concepts onto a handful of scriptures taken out of context) how then anyone could possibly call this Bible based or Christ centered?
Jesus did not teach any of this, not anything even close!
Nor His disciples!
We are warned, so clearly, never to run ahead of The Lords teachings [2 John 1:9-11], nor add to [Deuteronomy 4:2], subtract from [Jeremiah 8:8-9] nor leave out Gods Words at all [Mat 28:20] When any one of these tests is discarded, the truth is not present [Mat 15:9]
!A reminder of what a true believer/follower and worshiper of Jesus can rely on, The Holy Spirit!:
-Galatians 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
-Phl 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
-2Ti 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.
-Col 2:9-10 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority
Again, personally I suggest trusting Jesus with everything and go to Him directly, unencumbered by any man-made religious approaches: programs; steps; principles; guidelines; methods; techniques; factions; systems; philosophies; platforms; doctrines; psychologies; etc.
What I have witnessed, when one is truly following The Lord:
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His Steps. 1Pe 2:21
There is no longer room for any consideration to follow any man-made steps. If it is the real Jesus, He will make you a new creation, He will fill you up to over flowing, He will cancel all sin debts and free you from the past, He will…
Behold! All things are new!
2Cr 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Only a servant pointing towards Jesus only,
Brian
End note:
The Berean Call
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/2568
”One thing the young Christian should be taught as quickly as possible after his conversion is that Jesus Christ is all he needs.” ~ A.W. Tozer
An excerpt from:
http://knowgodsword.wordpress.com/sermons/forever-celebrating-recovery
Note: This below, teaching from a dear sister who studies the Bible with all of her might.
Rachel here, led by the Spirit brings Biblical truth with sound scripture references to illuminate what The Word says about these things.
Enjoy!
So this CR came out of his church?
It definitely is a funny mixture of psychology and Scripture… (And then using the beatitudes to formulate the “steps” sure appears to me to be taking verses completely out of context and applying them any old way they wish. Strange.) Why not just preach Christ’s Gospel –in it’s pure, unmixed form? Why should Christians get help from Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, when he praises Carl Jung as influencing the conception of the program? WHY do churches want to mix those methods with God’s way? Because CR definitely does! And though they do call addictions “sin” (as they should), instead of “a disease”, nevertheless, they hold people in perpetual bondage as AA does, by having them state at the beginning of every meeting, “Hi, I’m ______, and I’m a believer in Jesus Christ who struggles with issues of ________ addiction.” (Really? And for HOW LONG will you struggle? –Years? –A life-time?) But that’s beside the point, for everyone who claps with happiness that the person is no longer “in denial”.
No, no. This, everyone –for those of us who are born again– is a wrong focus –a false premise. How long must people talk about their addictions to others? Is this not a glorification of sin? Why is Eph. 5:12 being trampled? It says, “For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.” Is this truly edifying anyone –listening to all that filth? Phil. 4:8 admonishes us to think (and thus speak) only on those things which are noble, pure, lovely, admirable, etc. We are not to, especially in a group supposedly meeting under the banner of Christ, blab about just anything. “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” (1 Cor. 4:20) “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for IT is the power of God for the salvation [and deliverance and spiritual healing] of EVERYONE who believes.” (Rom. 1:16) I think CR and remedies like it must be for people that actually do not believe in the power of the gospel.
Or maybe they believe, but they are too lazy to feed themselves. They have no power to overcome because they refuse to pick up the Word of God and chew it and swallow it for themselves. I don’t mean just taste it. We are in a war. We need nourishment to be strong! That person hanging back –listening to the slave-master (Sin)– needs to feed heartily on Truth –or yes, he won’t stay free. He WILL crawl back. But it is unnecessary. For as Jesus says in John 8:34,36 –”Everyone who sins is a slave to sin… [But] if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” Indeed! Not “maybe” or “after tons of meetings.” No. Instead, “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (v. 32) And what “truth” is that? –All that babble from psychology? No, if you listen to Jesus, you’ll know that He Himself is the truth, His Words the answer to freedom from addictive sin. Because as we learn from His prayer to the Father in John 17:17 –”Sanctify them by the truth; Your WORD is truth.”